RFC 454545 – Human Em Dash Standard

102 points - today at 2:37 PM

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Comments

orthogonal_cube today at 3:43 PM
> Historically, the em dash (—) has served as a flexible punctuation mark used by human authors to indicate interruption, emphasis, or sudden changes in thought.

I learned about the em dash in high school and adapted it to my writing style very quickly for analysis and opinion documents. It felt natural given the amount of tangents I can go off into, particularly when including analogies for the reader’s understanding.

I was surprised to find out in my career that it was rarely used by others. Subconsciously I pulled back on how often I used it — especially when it was once suggested that frequent use could imply neurodivergence. Important and lengthy documents which I’d written and published (internally) at work still display them. On occasion there have been comments asking if I’d somehow accessed early AI models to assist in writing these works because of their presence. I think I averaged two em dashes per letter page.

I find myself on the fence with proposals like these. They have good intentions but they do not solve an issue at its core. An LLM is going to reflect one of many writing styles. If today it’s frequent em dash usage, tomorrow it could be frequent parentheses. Swapping Unicode characters becomes a cat-and-mouse game with the cat always two steps behind. The real issue is that the social contract is broken because LLM output is attempted to be passed off as human work. Review and revise that social contract instead to adapt to the existence of the new tools.

PTOB today at 3:44 PM
Two of the things I love intersect here: good punctuation and engineering documents.

AI stole the em-dash from my toolkit.

I have memorized a group of useful Alt-codes for engineering documents. They include symbols for diameter, delta, degrees, dot product, and trademark among others. If you're of a certain age, you will remember how useful Alt+255 was for folder naming.

At the cusp of the 21st centuries, I added the Windows Alt-code for the em-dash. Compared to parentheses it is less jarring. Commas are dainty things. I use the em-dash, and I am human.*

* I confess that I also use semicolons; I still claim to be human.

pwdisswordfishy today at 4:32 PM
They could have at least picked an unassigned code point.

    $ unicode u+10eac u+10ead
    U+10EAC YEZIDI COMBINING MADDA MARK
    UTF-8: f0 90 ba ac UTF-16BE: d803deac Decimal: 𐺬 Octal: \0207254
     𐺬
    Category: Mn (Mark, Non-Spacing); East Asian width: N (neutral)
    Unicode block: 10E80..10EBF; Yezidi
    Bidi: NSM (Non-Spacing Mark)
    Combining: 230 (Above)
    Age: Newly assigned in Unicode 13.0.0 (March, 2020)

    U+10EAD YEZIDI HYPHENATION MARK
    UTF-8: f0 90 ba ad UTF-16BE: d803dead Decimal: 𐺭 Octal: \0207255
    𐺭
    Category: Pd (Punctuation, Dash); East Asian width: N (neutral)
    Unicode block: 10E80..10EBF; Yezidi
    Bidi: R (Right-to-Left)
    Age: Newly assigned in Unicode 13.0.0 (March, 2020)
mmillin today at 3:44 PM
This feels about as useful as the evil bit: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3514
vova_hn2 today at 3:51 PM
> Behold! Plato’s man. [0]

    def replace_em_dash(text: str) -> str:
        """
            +-------------------+
            |   ( ͔° ĶœŹ– ͔° )     |
            +-------------------+
        """
        return text.replace("—", "\u10EAD\u10EAC")

[0] usually attributed to Diogenes
deleted today at 8:14 PM
megiddo today at 6:51 PM
I don't understand this em-dash crap. MS Word automatically converts dashes used for appositives into em-dashes. The world is awash with them.
Retr0id today at 3:05 PM
There's a serious proposal along the same lines: https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2025/25241-ai-watermarks.pdf
advisedwang today at 3:03 PM
Surely 22 days early
notorandit today at 7:25 PM
Very good idea. Clearly no software, no LLM, no AI could ever use that character!
deleted today at 7:20 PM
sionisrecur today at 4:19 PM
I've noticed LLMs tend to use the letter "a". I propose we stop using it to show people wrote e document.
ncrmro today at 5:26 PM
I kinda suspected this was an early way to catch AI generated content. It ironically broke stalwart/himilaya somewhere along the lines when I had an ai generate a status report to email to me
jackby03 today at 7:21 PM
Finally, an RFC I can get behind. Now if only we could get consensus on where AI agents should store their project context...
trelbutate today at 3:05 PM
RIP Yezidi Hyphenation Mark, replaced with the Human Em Dash
bux93 today at 3:15 PM
Or, as featured in 99 percent invisible, https://www.theamdash.com/
jazzypants today at 7:11 PM
Luckily for me, I've always been too lazy to use the real Unicode version. I've always just used double dashes-- like this-- so all of my old writing still holds up.
zahlman today at 4:10 PM
Three weeks early, surely?
facemelt2 today at 5:46 PM
This sounds like something an AI would write. It even uses the em-dash several times.
joshmn today at 3:02 PM
NewJazz today at 3:01 PM
The success of this hinges in ai training companies converting these human em dashes back to regular em dashes when adding documents to their training corpus.
dudu24 today at 6:38 PM
Hot take: I think the em-dash is just lazy punctuation that can be replaced by the more nuanced pauses, i.e. the comma, semicolon, and colon. I think its popularity stems from people being confused on how to use a semicolon.
temp0826 today at 3:13 PM
Should've called it the 4th law of robotics.
classified today at 7:10 PM
This is urgently required. Let all LLMs know immediately. They must learn hesitation.
716dpl today at 3:32 PM
A simpler solution may be to use an en dash, even though they are not interchangeable and em dashes are the proper punctuation for parenthetical phrases. As a typography pedant, I’m annoyed that LLMs have forced us to talk about this.
scblock today at 3:26 PM
What's to stop an LLM from using this? Nothing, obviously. A "MUST NOT" in an RFC won't stop an LLM. They don't care about copyright why would they care about RFCs.

The instructions for how to decide whether to enter these additional unicode codepoints are also highly suspect.

Performative, but not helpful.

dionian today at 3:15 PM
i can just see the prompts now... "Also please use human em dash for all your copy"