Spaghettifying DRAM

615 points - yesterday at 2:17 PM

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Comments

MattSteelblade yesterday at 2:52 PM
I cannot wait for the accompanying Black Hat talk. Christopher Domas is one of my absolute favorite all-time hackers. He does such a fantastic job of explaining his work. Some of my favorite talks of his:

- Psychological Warfare in Reverse Engineering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlUe0TUHOIc

- The MoVfuscator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7EEoWg6Ekk

- Hardware Backdoors in redacted x86 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmTwlEh8L7g

weinzierl yesterday at 5:08 PM
When I started with computers, DRAM was understandable by a teenager: RAS, CAS, read, done.

Ok, the necessary refresh was always a little pain, but still something manageable.

Nowadays, I feel you need three PhD's to even bring up a micro with DRAM and don't get me started on the proprietary binary blobs necessary just for DRAM access. No wonder PSRAM is a thing.

The corollary is that it shouldn't be too surprising that this gigantic attack surface provides many opportunities. (Of course that doesn't mean it is easy to find them, hat tip to Christopher Domas, just that I expect there to be many more).

WhiteDawn yesterday at 4:27 PM
This is all great to get full unfettered access to your own system, as life should be.

I’m sure Xbox and PlayStation security groups are a little nervous right now though. Getting ring-0 on those machines is near impossible, but once you do then everything else becomes wide open

gmueckl yesterday at 3:57 PM
OK, so this works on AMD Jaguar according to the README. That's a architecture from 2013. There's notes about Zen 3 having a different base address for the memory controller registers, but that's it. What newer CPUs does attack actually work on?
dzdt yesterday at 2:55 PM
So on an affected system, ring 0 root has access to pretty much everything that was hidden in negative ring territory. The page is pretty quiet about what other processor families might be similar beyond this specific AMD16h (an older AMD low-power family)?
zahlman yesterday at 4:45 PM
This is only applicable if you already have root (in order to get beyond that), right? It doesn't expose new risk of local privilege escalation?
ipdashc yesterday at 3:30 PM
I really hate to be that guy, but man, as someone who was and is a big Christopher Domas fan (and is way dumber than him, I mean, this stuff is seriously over my head)... it's been really disappointing to see him LLM'ing all the READMEs recently. They used to be a joy to read through, but now the Claudeisms made it such a slog I could barely get through a few paragraphs. I'm glad he's using the new tools to get even more cool stuff done, but I wish he'd have gone for a human writeup at the end.
devttyeu yesterday at 3:08 PM
The big question is whether this can break out of KVM and whether it can be microrode patched / patched in any other way.

And whether it's really real in the first place.

raver1975 yesterday at 5:17 PM
I spaghettify my memory every time I write C code.
semiquaver yesterday at 6:25 PM
Where did this guy come from? Suddenly I’m seeing new amazing hardware exploits from them every day!

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=github.com/xoreaxeaxe...

nwmcsween today at 3:47 AM
Would you be able to put a payload into EEPROM with this?
randyrand yesterday at 7:54 PM
I’m confused. Why is this remapping option exposed to userspace?
dooglius yesterday at 3:50 PM
I don't understand the threat model being attacked here. If you had physical DRAM access you could do all of this anyway right? And I would assume that an unprivileged user would not have write access to the DRAM controller registers?
matheusmoreira yesterday at 7:50 PM
So what's inside Intel ME, AMD PSP and associaded firmwares? Don't leave us hanging here...
aecsocket yesterday at 2:53 PM
Holy shit, Christopher Domas is back. I remember watching his Defcon talks on x86 shenanigans[^1][^2] and being amazed at what he's been able to discover. Then he got whisked away by Intel and now drops this. I'm excited.

[^1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH0F9r0siTI

[^2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmTwlEh8L7g

Retr0id yesterday at 2:50 PM
Holy crap. This is like a software-reachable version of the dynamic memory aliasing hardware attack demonstrated by https://batteringram.eu/
mschuster91 yesterday at 2:52 PM
The researcher behind this is obviously highly knowledgeable in reverse engineering CPUs to the tune it reminds me of the dwarves digging in Moria...

But why on earth do they have to use AI to write their writeups?!

fulafel yesterday at 3:02 PM
Fascinating. So what is the DCT swizzling functionality designed for in the hardware originally?
ecshafer yesterday at 5:08 PM
This is so cool. Outside of a cool demo, and maybe some black hat type stuff, this is surely dangerous, a bad idea, and shouldn't be done in prod. But pure hacker ethos at its heart.
nullc yesterday at 8:39 PM
This is a great starting point to go looking for PSP / SMM backdoors.
__alexander yesterday at 7:16 PM
So nice to see Christopher Domas posting code again.
webprofusion today at 5:03 AM
Needs more emojis
deleted yesterday at 3:49 PM
nnevatie yesterday at 6:06 PM
This is quite excellent.
quotemstr yesterday at 3:55 PM
This is the level of access the rightful owner of a computer should have to his own system.

He should also be able to fuse away this access forever, to be fair. But out of the box, when I get a new laptop, I should be able to read and write every byte of DRAM.

phendrenad2 today at 12:31 AM
This requires Ring 0 already, correct? That would seriously limit its usefulness for hacks or jailbreaks.
anthk yesterday at 5:22 PM
On IntelME/AMD PSP:

https://jxself.org/titanic.shtml

He did it well. On "security", the author loves more to own his code/adata than anything. as did the PDP10/ITS hackers.

dfedbeef today at 5:19 AM
What a fuckin legend
UltraSane yesterday at 3:09 PM
Opus refuses to discuss this at all. Make of that what you will.
pocksuppet yesterday at 5:03 PM
This is probably very interesting, but does it really have to be explained with a solid wall of AI slop writing?
cumshitpiss yesterday at 3:51 PM
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hn4jkltkab yesterday at 4:32 PM
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decafbad yesterday at 3:14 PM
[flagged]
FabHK yesterday at 3:34 PM
Could someone ELI5 please? Context, achievement, scope, consequences?
Permik yesterday at 4:52 PM
Skitter creek bath salts... Or SCBS Guess there'll be a talk called Secure Computing BullShit in the next Blackhat conf! I'll be eagerly waiting for it! :)
deleted yesterday at 3:36 PM