[1]: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash/blob/...

[2]: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-fable-5-1-mythos-5-1-system...

I know everybody wants the tell all story of the clever ideas that were developed over the last ~3 years at Anthropic and OpenAI, but what I really want to thumb through is DeepSeek's notebook of "brilliant but didn't quite make the cut" ideas.

They must be trying some truely bonkers stuff to be able to land this much architecture novelty in their full releases.

The bad news is that the original v4 flash was 284B, which was large but still somewhat reasonable for running locally. This one is 552B so almost twice that, so the huge gains in benchmark scores make sense - it's not really flash anymore, imo.

I've no idea about actual performance vs benchmaxxing, though deepseek was fairly trustworthy as far as Chinese models go. If that holds (and if it doesn't think forever, as deepseek 4 sometimes did) it's probably the newest king of the hill amongst open weights models.

It does include vision, and they do something funky with KV cache so it's very efficient: "[...] these designs reduce the global KV cache footprint to 890 bytes per token — roughly 1/4 of DeepSeek-V4-Flash". I do appreciate the high focus on efficiency, but at this point we sure could use a flash-flash version.

@edit: I couldn't make sense what the actual parameter count is, with the addition of Engram memory. To my understanding the 4.1 flash is 552B parameters you want in vram or ram, out of which ~16B is active (8B for prefill). It also includes additional 196B Engram memory which you can put on an SSD. I think.

Assuming that's correct 256 GB memory is insufficient to even load the model at q4 - you'd be 1GB short, assuming you can fill it to 100% (so no mac). You'd also want some for kv cache of course. A 256 GB desktop with some extra VRAM from GPU could run it, but normal consumer boards get real slow once you fill 4 slots so you'll probably want quad channel which is Threadripper or above territory.

Every model release seems like it packed with wonderful research and advancements.

It also seems to be more willing to just do whatever you ask of it. My favourite benchmark for this is to ask it to download a rom for an old game, that I own. Legal in my juristiction but the US models (except Grok) have a tendency to refuse it.

Should be the link ( now that it works again! :) )

DeepSeek v4 flash is $0.10 / $0.25 as opposed to this v4.1 bump which is $0.30 / $1.20

I suffix everything with "Reply in English", and even so I‘m getting lots of Chinese.

Underlying it all is that any architecture can be trained to the same convergence just difference in compute utilization both in training and inference

Deepseek v4.1 flash is able to solve it some of the time. I've found it burns through more reasoning tokens than any other model. Google models like Gemini 3.8 Flash are still dominating and is able to one-shot most evals while being the cheapest.

I'm curious what other unique evals people are running.

Too bad that DeepSeek AI went beyond 470b weights (which is a somewhat realistic limit for a 2x 128GB unified memory machine cluster like Strix Halo or Nvidia Spark).

That means that to make the model fit into memory there you need a quantisation of lower than 4bits per weight (which is usually bad) to fit it into the available memory.

In terms of coding and command line capabilities I'm also very interested to see a head-to-head of it vs. qwen 3.8-flash-next Q8 which is something like 190GB of memory used when loaded into llama-server. It fits very well in all sorts of 256GB or under class machines.

I was hoping for a bit more, but it's still 100% faster for a very good price, so I won't complain.

In Pi (pi.dev), it tells me it's definitely Claude by Anthropic, via the API via curl it tells me it's "probably ChatGPT", its very funny.

> Causal Encoder-Decoder (CED) architecture: a 40-layer Transformer organized as a 20-layer causal encoder followed by a 20-layer decoder. With CED, the decoder's global KV cache is projected from the final encoder hidden states rather than derived from each decoder layer's own hidden states. This allows the model to activate only 8B parameters per token during prefill and 16B during decode, substantially improving cost efficiency for input-heavy agentic workloads.

> these designs reduce the global KV cache footprint to 890 bytes per token — roughly 1/4 of DeepSeek-V4-Flash.

Faster prefill, lower kv cache (~1GB / 1m context is insane).

> The model supports a continuously controllable reasoning effort setting (integer 1–100) that trades inference cost for accuracy.

Benchmarks are benchmarks, to be seen if they translate to real-world use, but they seem to have focused a lot on post-training with "agentic" scores looking good. "world knowledge" is obviously lower than higher param models.

Oh interesting, I can assume what the benefits is for including the Encoder, but whats the downside? I’m thinking GPT (which is decoder only) ruled out Encoder for a reason?

When Astra launched, I think Artifical Analysis showed that it was on par with GPT-5.6 Sol and lower than Opus or something like that? Then, they updated the scoring.

I hope that more open source models, including this model, to be "as good to use" as Astra.

[1] https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash/blob/...

“DeepSeek launching v4.1 flash cheaper and more capable than v4 pro”

399 points | 19 hours ago | 216 comments

https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4.1-flash

super fast true

No wonder they retired the Pro model in favour of this.

I personally found V4-flash an amazing model and really hungry to try 4.1-flash

For software factories, cost is much more a concern that standard development workflow and using anthropic models is just a non starter