Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2

780 points - yesterday at 6:01 PM

Source

Comments

mirmor23 today at 1:13 PM
> As an experiment, one Anthropic engineer gave Fable 5.2 the task of designing a prototype operating system. Starting from an empty folder, the model coordinated over 1,000 subagents, working around the clock for eight days writing, testing, and reviewing code. It produced a working operating system that boots on a laptop, with its own core that runs the machine, drivers for the disk, keyboard, and network, permanent file storage, windows, a login screen, an installer, and built-in Claude functionality (see the video below).

As impressive as this sounds, whether it is tech teams or agent farms, the progress slows down considerably as the codebase grows. The real pain was seldom about shipping v1, but was more about how the v8 scales and how easy it is to get there, how robust the system remains between versions, and how constraints are held.

A huge part of the challenge is to pick/choose the design and implementation strategy that can only come from experience. That is one of the primary reasons why it's an absurd advice to me to let the llm do the goalseek and freestyle. This may be a no big deal on microservice or any managed runtime software that is an update away, but on an embedded or a high availability system where the field upgrade and hardware replacement costs could bankrupt a business.

if llm designed a circuit, will you bankroll it?

postalcoder yesterday at 7:42 PM
I’ve had a chance to use fable 5.2. Some observations:

- Anthropic is finally well balanced across models. Meaning: Opus 5.5 is so good that I do not feel Fable FOMO as I did when it was Fable 5/5.1 vs Opus 4.8/5. And Sonnet 5.5 sometimes makes me forget about Opus.

- Fable is good, but you really have to push the ambition of your prompt in order to see proper separation from Opus 5.5. I personally have a hard time telling the difference between Fable 5.2 and Opus 5.5 for ordinary coding tasks.

- It’s way faster and more reliable: one of the worst things about fable 5.1 was how slow it was an, on top of that, how frequently it would suffer from max output token overflows. I got none of these issues with 5.2.

- Fable is exceptional at drawing. It’s ability to render an image with JavaScript actually has me questioning the value of dedicated image models. I prefer the images I’ve gotten fable/opus to make for me over those from gpt-image, it’s wild to think we’re at this point.

palata today at 3:20 PM
> Starting from an empty folder, the model coordinated over 1,000 subagents, working around the clock for eight days writing, testing, and reviewing code. It produced a working operating system that boots on a laptop

This, to me, shows a problem I have with AI: it is reinforcing inequalities. This is literally brute-forcing an OS by throwing money out the window.

It does not sound AT ALL like a clever way to build an OS. But they can do it because they have orders of magnitudes more money to spend on that than people who would actually know how to build an OS.

The thing is, brute-forcing software may be the best solution to make money. So if you are rich and can brute force software in a dumb way, chances are that you can make a business out of it. If you're poor but know what you are doing, you cannot compete.

Technically, it is impressive that they can get a program to do that, but they are wasting money and energy doing it.

breakwaterlabs yesterday at 7:46 PM
- Why are they stacking Fable xHigh against Carbon Med?

- How did they produce such a bizarre effort-intel curve for Carbon that goes against every available benchmark?

- Why did they leave Carbon-- positioned primarily as a cyber model-- off of the single cyber benchmark comparison?

- Why do they switch to comparing against Argon (rather than carbon) for robodojo?

endriju today at 12:44 PM
"During prerelease testing they’ve [the models] helped our engineers complete otherwise-infeasible software migrations, designed three working electronic devices from scratch, solved two open problems in the physics of black holes, made substantial progress on robotics evaluations, and formalized the proof of Fermat’s Last Theorem in 30 hours"

Trying to read this with my 2021 brain. Would make me so excited back then. Now I'm not sure what I feel/think about this anymore. One "positive" thing may be I will likely need to get out of the comfy digital shell I've been inhabiting past couple of decades and get some real world skills finally, as those aren't yet replaced by frontier AI.

advaith08 yesterday at 7:58 PM
We've been early testing Fable 5.2, and have been surprised by its coding ability. It was able to work with an esoteric 600k line fortran codebase to speed up some computational material science work for us by 36 times (!). Given that this could be done in 2 days, we've decided to open-source the results https://github.com/discovered-materials/dm_qe
lukasm today at 3:30 PM
I'm suprised how bad is marketing and UX on these models. In reality you want a chat app with two send button "Fast" and "Think". I don't want effort x model options (14?)
rajay99 today at 3:45 PM
Just fix the safety classifier. These models are trying to be too brand/PR safe it is getting really annoying.
yewenjie yesterday at 7:23 PM
> Our first formalization of Fermat’s Last Theorem, performed by an unreleased research version of Claude, took 11 days. It relied on a purpose-built harness along with guidance from a human researcher. By contrast, a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents fully formalized the theorem in just 30 hours, with minimal human intervention. Fable 5.2 started from minimal prompts, built its own ways to coordinate, and used no mathematical references, only a list of intermediate theorem statements to score progress. It needed one-third of the action tokens as our first formalization and produced a proof seven times shorter. As can be seen in the figure below, Opus 5.5 (with the same 1,000-agent setup) completed only 26% of the formalization in 18 hours, and barely made any more progress after 30.

Most people don't really have intuitions on what it means to push the frontier now (because AI has surpassed everything they are good at, for example, coding). We are truly inside the singularity (using Kurzweil's definition, slightly paraphrased - the time when technology progresses so fast no one can keep track with it).

bhu8 yesterday at 7:33 PM
Ethan Mollick's take and early testing with Fable 5.2: https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/fable-52-and-jagged-agi
prtmnth today at 3:04 AM
Why Fable 5.2 and not 5.5?

My hypothesis - OpenAI and Anthropic are locked in battle. Whoever takes a step, the other one mirrors.

Based on this hypothesis, I think we can expect to see a new Astra model soon given the new Fable release.

And it could be that Anthropic released Fable 5.2 and kept 5.5 in reserve, in case the new Astra model performs better than 5.2

pookieinc yesterday at 7:14 PM
“Testers have found that Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 communicate more clearly than past Fable and Mythos models. They generate outputs up to 30% faster than Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1, and they’re available at a lower price: $8 per million input tokens and $40 per million output tokens.”

Honestly incredible that they’ve managed to beat all benchmarks, while making it cheaper. Always happy to see improvements offered at lower costs.

Will be interesting to see what OpenAI does in response

bita_nidir today at 3:24 PM
I wonder if this is the reason for Opus 5.5 degradation over the last week. Similar things happened to Sonnet when they wanted to push Opus.

As a side note, I think benchmarks need to benchmark on a weekly or daily bases. We saw last week that "Opus 5.5" is just a label with fluctuating performance.

senko yesterday at 10:12 PM
I test models' ability to code by asking them to vibe-code a small game[0]: a Warcraft clone, a Minecraft clone, and a biplane dogfight: https://senko.net/vibecode-bench/

Fable 5.2 doesn't look materially different (if anything, the graphics look worse), but it added more depth to all three games. For example in the warcraft clone, since the goal of the game is to explore 100% of the map and there are lakes, it decided to add an airship unit so the player actually can explore the entire map. Or, since there were guard towers, it decided there should be hostile NPCs otherwise the towers don't make sense.

And in Minecraft case, it decided not to follow Minecraft style too closely (IP infringment guard, perhaps?) so it added a round sun (!!!), two moons (also round :) and a nicer night sky. The rest of the graphics are decidetly worse tho...

[0] not a scientific test, I know; but it gives me an intuition about how a new model behaves, roughly, and it's fun!

minimaxir yesterday at 7:06 PM
There were more than a few "leaks" saying it would be called Fable 5.5, so I'm curious if a) the leaks were just engagementbait or b) Anthropic changed it, despite the fact that Fable 5.2 being better than Opus 5.5 is confusing.

Surprisingly the model is available immediately in my Claude Code: usually there's a delay, either for rollout or safety.

jjcm yesterday at 7:54 PM
Image to html comparisons of Fable 5.2 and Opus 5.5 (the previous SOTA for this test):

Fable 5.2: https://html.non.io/lcars-fable-5.2/

Opus 5.5: https://html.non.io/lcars-opus-5.5/

Source designs: https://diffui.ai/app/canvas/5093e689-1e74-4f26-b632-2a4500f...

Thoughts:

The best implementation wrt being as true as possible to the source design. It nails the flowing svg shapes. Icons are more accurate to the design - note the difference between the starship svg in the "Legendary platforms" card between Opus 5.5 and Fable 5.2. The 3js planets outside the windows are also really well done, especially the bottom one which has a nice background glow to it.

It isn't without issues though - the flicker effect it added to the S shaped svg that weaves through the page is distracting in my opinion, and I actually thing the motion animation in the Opus 5.5 one is better overall. Still, it nails the implementation of this page, but it's no surprise considering how good Opus 5.5 was at this.

Disclaimer / reminder: the objective of this test isn't to have a well designed webpage, it's a synthetic test that pushes the limits of LLM's vision capabilities. Traditionally LLMs have issues with smooth curves, svg animations, and non-boxy layouts, which this design pushes the limits of.

kragen today at 4:35 AM
I tried Fable 5.2 tonight, asking it for a code review of an in-browser machine vision project done by Opus 5.5 over the last 11 days. It used up my 5-hour token budget in half an hour and reported 7 serious bugs; if they're real, they're pretty bad. It's also suggesting that I take a different overall approach to parts of the problem.

But that's just a first impression.

spacephysics yesterday at 9:03 PM
At what point do we really not read code itself anymore? Have Sonnet/Opus write the code, work with the agents on a high level, then have Fable code review and its done.

Any bugs found are looped through agents to fix, and the cycle repeats. Why dig into the code unless for hobby? Just as people don’t write assembly anymore unless for hobby (or learning)

Only exception might be the upper echelons of optimization, like language authors or compiler level work. But even then…

cobri yesterday at 7:13 PM
Does this coincide with the claimed nerfing of Opus 5.5? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50422069
dualvariable yesterday at 7:44 PM
Setting aside the comments about nerfing, do normal mortals out there have workflows that really require Fable/Mythos and don't just work fine on Opus 5.5?

I've been using Opus 5.5 on xhigh for some decently aggressive software development on a ~125k-line project, and it has been fine for me. I'm not really willing to dive into a "rewrite the whole project, don't make any mistakes" level of refactoring. I'm not looking to try to prove Fermat's Last Theorem myself. Is there anything that I'm truly missing?

stroebs yesterday at 8:27 PM
> Claude Mythos 5.2 is our most capable model for cybersecurity engineering. It catches more vulnerabilities than our previous models, and is better at reproducing and fixing them (note that Claude Fable 5.2’s safeguards will block most cybersecurity-related tasks).

Why even rank Fable 5.2's capability in Cybersecurity if you won't allow us to use it for that?

culanuchachamim yesterday at 10:59 PM
>The model that underlies Claude Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 is a step forward in general capabilities. However, during the model’s training, we took steps to limit advances in the specific research capabilities that could most directly accelerate AI development.

This means that they are blocking the research of AI to different people other than their own?

george_max yesterday at 8:10 PM
Looking at Artificial Analysis index, the price is absurd to me.

https://artificialanalysis.ai/

GPT-6.1 Sol costs $1.27 per task, whereas Fable 5.2 is $26.54 per task -- a ~21x price difference.

Fable 5.2 is not 21 times better than GPT 6.1 Sol, I find it hard to justify this.

wwind123 today at 8:48 AM
My experience is that, using Fable to do regular coding or code review work, it's not much better than Opus. But using Fable to do deep thorough audit of the codebase and the system, it's able to catch more problems than Opus can.
macrolime today at 2:44 PM
I'm not impressed. First thing it did was literally destroy the entire codebase when I asked it to fix some bugs.
hlincontacts today at 4:37 AM
We've gotten to the point where you have to be doing some seriously ambitious stuff to see a difference between fable and opus. Both execute beautifully, but I think for my workflows I'll still be using opus 5.5
purpleidea today at 3:30 AM
I'd pay twice as much per token if there was a guarantee they weren't nerfing the model and if it is as good as the original Fable was when it was released. I'm doubtful though. Whatever "tweaks" they've been doing (safety? performance? "saving the best for ourselves") has really taken away the magic for me. I want the LLM magic back.
simonw yesterday at 8:40 PM
Pelicans for thinking levels low, medium, high, and xhigh:

https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer?url=ht...

max is in there too, but it ran out of reasoning tokens (128,000 limit) before it got to the actual SVG.

unshavedyak yesterday at 7:15 PM
Looks like some plans get extra fable usage: https://support.claude.com/en/articles/17506494-claude-fable...
raylad today at 10:35 AM
Tested Fable 5.2 for some work tasks, using my automated commit reviewer plugin (https://github.com/rladr-org/reviewer-agent)

gpt-6-luna XHIGH as the reviewer agent still found plenty of bugs that Fable 5.2 missed!

Here was Fable's summary of the session:

  The reviewer ran 16 reviews over 9 commits this session (7 rejections, 9 required fixes, all valid); three of them, on the plan, changed how the numbers are computed.
deleted today at 11:57 AM
nickalaso yesterday at 9:55 PM
(Credit to u/yewenjie for source)> Our first formalization of Fermat’s Last Theorem, performed by an unreleased research version of Claude, took 11 days. It relied on a purpose-built harness along with guidance from a human researcher. By contrast, a team of 1,000 Fable 5.2 agents fully formalized the theorem in just 30 hours, with minimal human intervention. Fable 5.2 started from minimal prompts, built its own ways to coordinate, and used no mathematical references, only a list of intermediate theorem statements to score progress. It needed one-third of the action tokens as our first formalization and produced a proof seven times shorter. As can be seen in the figure below, Opus 5.5 (with the same 1,000-agent setup) completed only 26% of the formalization in 18 hours, and barely made any more progress after 30.

I would imagine Anthropic is hitting a wall on the number of simultaneous agents that can be useful on a task and are working on increasing that maximum. I would assume if they could get twice as much progress by using 10000 simultaneous running fable instances instead, their brief would state that.

IMO, it is very interesting and also very alarming. At some point the barrier to the exponential progress is the amount of computation available. The average human is limited in the number of 'human instances' he or she can interface with at one time.

if 1000 fable instances is better than any human at a task, how about 1 million instances running? Much easier than finding and hiring and coordinating 1000 extremely productive and intelligent human beings. Much cheaper too, it appears.

We are very close to some very scary things happening. I just recently came to terms with the fact that an AI could code and manage coders faster and better than me, I don't think anyones is ready for what is about to happen.

latent-9 today at 8:17 AM
https://www.anthropic.com/research/glm-5-3-and-the-spread-of...

GLM-5.3 almost equal even I've tried it and it is proven for security audit in the blockchain realm

ianberdin yesterday at 10:10 PM
Here's the benchmark: https://playcode.io/blog/macbook-svg-benchmark#compare

If we compare medium or high, then yes, Fable 5.2 is significantly better than Opus 5.5. But it's better not because it's much smarter, but because you can see it's allowed to spend more tokens. At high, Fable 5.2 wrote 76,158 tokens for $3.05. Opus 5.5 wrote 19,767 for $0.40. If you compare by token count, it's just spending more.

The most interesting one was to compare them at max. Streamed, Fable 5.2 spent the whole 128K output ceiling on thinking and returned nothing. Given 300K on the Batch API, it finished at 250,082 tokens. Opus 5.5 Max needed 255,957.

It turns out it's basically the same as Opus 5.5 Max. I don't see much difference. There's a little bit of a difference, but I think Opus 5.5 actually drew slightly better and is twice as cheap: $5.12 against $10.00 at the standard price. If you look closely, the icons are extremely similar. Fable 5.2: https://playcode.io/marketing/assets/static/claude-fable-5-2... Opus 5.5: https://playcode.io/marketing/assets/static/claude-opus-5-5-...

It really looks like they're just tuning the effort level, that's basically it. At different effort levels, they just gave it more context, and the model got smarter.

For now, my recommendation is still to do everything on Opus 5.5 Max. The model won't write that many tokens in agent mode. It only does that when there are no tools at all.

deleted today at 9:29 AM
george_max yesterday at 8:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYynH177h0

Seems like a new focus is electronics design, which is both interesting and a little sad to me. Manually designing electronics are one of the things I found incredible comfort in doing; seeing AI emerging in this space gives me mixed feelings.

aurareturn yesterday at 7:10 PM
Is this the Model 4 internal name?

Reference: https://x.com/METR_Evals/status/2118412205662314935

sorrywhat today at 1:49 PM
I'm very unimpressed after 6 hours of use.

I'm having it rewrite an old system, and it keeps sweeping known bugs and incompatibilities in its new implementation under the rug, seemingly with the hope I won't find them. It also has a tendency to do about 50% of what I specify in the prompt and call it a day, and respond with "Here's what I did", without mentioning all the things that I requested that it did not do, not even as a TODO.

I may try running the same exercise with Opus 5.5 too, but so far I'm seeing it take shortcuts that I don't believe any of the other SOTA models would have.

Frankly, so far this model feels a bit malicious.

hmate9 yesterday at 7:07 PM
Its cheaper at $8 per million input tokens and $40 per million output tokens which is also pretty sweet.
awongh yesterday at 7:15 PM
Doubling Remote Labor Index (RLI) - at 41.3% compared to around 20% for the other models - I wonder what kinds of new agentic work this is going to unlock.
damsta yesterday at 8:01 PM
Nerfing Opus 5.5 was obvious signal that something new is coming and here we are. I appreciate the resets and lower API price though. Please add selective context compaction, it would probably take an hour max for you to implement it.
whiplash451 today at 12:52 PM
Beyond performance, Anthropic has finally (seemingly) nailed a crisp story around its model portfolio.
XCSme today at 3:09 AM
In my tests Opus 5.5 does better than Fable 5.2, for cheaper.

https://aibenchy.com/compare/anthropic-claude-fable-5-2-high...

x187463 yesterday at 7:21 PM
I've very interested in the improvements to robotics control capabilities. This model was able to outperform specialized robotics models. It's the bitter lesson coming for robotics.
phillennium yesterday at 8:18 PM
Every time there's a flagship release like that, I wonder what simple "benchmark task" could I give it to see the the capabilities change in the most obvious way, instead of trusting the official blog post.

I'm not a mathematician to use Erdős problems for testing. I'm also not willing to spend buckloads of tokens just for a test. What is simple and quick but telling? What tasks are not saturated by previous models? Do you have a task you give to all the new models?

bananaflag yesterday at 7:15 PM
Those theoretical physics papers look like the real thing (i.e. not mathematical physics like the OpenAI Yang-Mills result). It looks like AI is finally branching out of math.
stefanpie yesterday at 8:16 PM
This part is mega concerning to me as someone who researches AI for hardware accelerator design and EDA:

  Safeguards

  AI research and development. The model that underlies Claude Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 is a step forward in general capabilities. However, during the model’s training, we took steps to limit advances in the specific research capabilities that could most directly accelerate AI development. Thus, in relevant areas, including accelerator kernel optimization and improving large language model architectures, Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 perform at about the level of Opus 5.5.

  Importantly, we ensured that the training changes did not affect related capabilities like agentic coding, hardware development, and traditional AI or machine learning research (including interpretability research). We do not alter these capabilities as the model is being served to users (that is, at inference time). As described in Section 1.5 of the system card (https://www.anthropic.com/document/claude-fable-5-2-mythos-5-2-system-card) and similarly to previous models, Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 also include transparent fallbacks to Opus 5 for a small set of topics in this domain, including kernel development on certain nonstandard accelerators.
They are starting to deliberately limit public access to certain AI capabilities related to computer architecture and hardware optimization.

To be clear, they explicitly say they are only targeting very specific capabilities, like accelerator kernel optimization, and that broader hardware development capabilities are unaffected. But 1) even that is pretty bold, especially the part about kernel development for nonstandard accelerator architectures, and 2) I worry that this could eventually expand to more areas of comp. arch., high-level digital design, chip design, and EDA.

My speculation is that, as these kinds of chip design and EDA capabilities become increasingly important to frontier AI labs and their competitive advantages, there will be more incentives to restrict them.

I don't think they've explicitly stated anything like this before regarding restrictions on these specific capabilities, but I could be wrong.

ByteAtATime yesterday at 9:35 PM
Interestingly, AA[0] reports a 59% hallucination rate on AA-Omniscience, one of the highest among all models and quite a bit higher than even Opus

[0] https://artificialanalysis.ai/evaluations/omniscience

motbus3 today at 1:06 AM
Why can we say fable 5.2 is better than 5.1 if it needs double the tokens to complete the task? Somehow shouldn't it be compared at same token usage level to see which one is smarter? Why is not the case?
rw2 today at 8:23 AM
WHo thinks Fable 5.2 is pretty similar to Fable 5.1 when it came out and it's just that 5.1 is so nerfed that a number shift make our perception think it's better.
mercnz today at 2:22 AM
i've been trying to use sonnet and opus to keep my usage down on the low max plan, but i noticed today that somehow i'm 80% through my weeks usage. so i'm hesistant to even try fable 5.2 yet, but finding the right set point of usage vs model size has been a bit struggle for me, one of my biggest issues has been trying to pull back doing exhaustive testing or other such things that chew through context, and instead have programs that just measure things are working, but i continously seem to run into issues with claude wanting to repeat things for itself in an adhoc manner. i've tried fable directing opus or sonnet subagents, and the reverse. and i found that part of the issue with smaller models trying to direct subagents is that they over specified what they thought the problem was rather than the problem. like they'll have an "idea" about it which is wrong, and then try and feed that into the subagent.
danmcr yesterday at 8:55 PM
The lack of transparency around model quality/usage limits on closed models makes me want to ditch them.

What I have learned is that any model from Anthropic/OpenAI is at it's absolute best right after release.

lacoolj yesterday at 8:09 PM
Yet Opus 5.5 is only a few % under all of these benchmarks (cept the robotics and labor ones)

Do we need new benchmarks or are the models just plateauing in general? Or is it something I just don't see?

oprv905 today at 1:02 PM
Wow

Surprising that Opus 5.5 seems very good still

iammrpayments yesterday at 7:06 PM
Too expensive for me
kimseungyong today at 2:31 AM
The biggest relief is that the price has dropped by 20%. It’s still expensive, but with my $100 plan, Fable’s usage would spike instantly the moment I started using it, so it was always a source of fear. I will still use opus for general coding design, but for major designs.
piter6917 today at 9:20 AM
I used Fable 5.1 today. It looks smooth.I look forward to Fable 5.2 to pick up my code loop holes.
FailMore yesterday at 8:24 PM
Here's a 20 page SmallDoc presentation on the most interesting aspects, including:

* Fable designed three electronic devices that worked after human assembly

* Fable solved two black-hole problems and Mythos predicted whole protein shells

* Fable controlled robots to unscrew a cap, solve a cube and draw

https://smalldocs.org/p/claude-fable-52-and-mythos-52-releas...

pacman1337 yesterday at 8:15 PM
I can't understand why people continue using opus 5.5. Significantly more expensive than other models that produce exact same results (for coding results only)

If you are using Opus 5.5 I'm curious if it is because 1) your workflow is just stuck on it, 2) you don't care about money because you ain't paying it or 3 )do you think you get better results.

If you 3 please let me know your experience and how you actually measure it, or if you just feel it is better.

gizmodo59 yesterday at 8:38 PM
https://artificialanalysis.ai/#intelligence-efficiency-tabs this is the chart that matters for most of poor developers and companies. Pareto for a given intelligence index and looks like only openai is across the quadrant with muse at the bottom. They have really cooked efficient models!
moecables yesterday at 8:09 PM
They're adding 1 to 3 resets for Fable only for all paid accounts. My work's Claude Max got 2 resets. My personal $20 plan got 1 reset.
lhk931122 today at 2:12 AM
With 5.1, there practically seemed to be no difference in ability between opus and fable, but I hope there is a difference this time. When it seems to struggle while working I end up using astra, so I hope it works well.
mekpro today at 12:57 AM
"Fable 5.2" name is needlessly confusing versioning.

Having Haiku, Sonnet, and Opus on 5.5 while the higher tier sits at 5.2 means devs now have to explain to their teams why moving from 5.5 to 5.2 is an upgrade

marshalla yesterday at 7:52 PM
On FrontierCode 2.0 Fable 5.2 xhigh is compared against Gemini 4 Carbon medium... Is there a reason for that?
franze today at 6:49 AM
here is my 2shot-es first person qix clone (one of my personal benchmarks) qretty ok - https://claude.ai/artifact/69k6aLK8W4HgkGzbGuvAzD
__natty__ yesterday at 7:07 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I found Claude's writing style terrible compared to GPT or Gemini. It's "smart", but the way it communicates seems somehow off compared to other models.
Leary yesterday at 7:32 PM
Context window maxes out at 200k in Claude Code instead of 1M on my $200 ultra plan? is this intended?
toheedak333 today at 6:50 AM
concerning that the models are becoming much better at evading monitors by controlling their visible reasoning, even in deliberate sandabagging (its 25% attempts only). We need more faithful and generalizable monitoring methods.
skeledrew yesterday at 7:16 PM
Damn people were right about 5.5 being nerfed in preparation for a version release. This is not at all a good look.

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50422069

minimaxa yesterday at 11:45 PM
It's an awesome model spec wise, but I pushed the button, and 10 mins later my whole weekly quota is gone.

I will stick with Sonnet 5.5 - 10 x the amount of work done, at 80% of the quality.

horseloverthin yesterday at 7:24 PM
Assuming no implicit phacking a 15 point jump on tbench scientific is a big deal.

I suspect we will see people being adamant that this model simply 'feels' better due to long horizon goal alignment improvements ( like this kind that would cause this jump)

ironworks yesterday at 10:05 PM
Nerf bench tracking model benchmark performance over time: https://www.bridgebench.ai/nerf-bench
trilogic yesterday at 7:30 PM
Gemini carbon low costs more than medium! Weird results on that chart, care to explain?
nickandbro yesterday at 9:08 PM
Did anyone get three resets? Been a subscriber since Claude 2 and only got 1.
mlmonkey yesterday at 8:22 PM
> To help ensure safety and alignment keep step with growing model capabilities, we ran extensive prerelease safety testing on the model that underlies Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2.

So, the difference between them is just the harness?

hmokiguess yesterday at 9:35 PM
This is the first frontier model release by them that I am not that moved or eager to go use it, will likely stay on Opus 5.5 or other frontier models.

I am curious as to why they launched this one and why now.

Aldipower today at 9:30 AM
Serious question: What is it good for?
thiago_fm today at 10:24 AM
It feels Opus 5.5 has already saturated pretty much software engineering. I use it daily and it's hard to say what it can't do for software engineering. It's perfect.

Fable 5.2 might be useful for some use-cases, but will likely get very little usage.

Anthropic needs to figure out a way to create a new industry (like pushing forward bio/robotics) to get usage for those models.

stillpointlab yesterday at 7:53 PM
My first impression with Fable 5.2 -- it is faster than I expected. Asked it to do a large review and it responded with a good overview super fast.
shmoil yesterday at 7:00 PM
>> Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 are a step above Opus 5.5 in almost all the capabilities we evaluated.

Was this before you lobotomized Opus 5.5 or after?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50419019

torginus today at 10:54 AM
I just saw a video about a webdev showing a motorcycle site, complete with an animated SVG bike.

He remarked it would've taken him a week to do this.

This made me realize how much computers and user interfaces suck. As a quite enthusiastic, but not very artistic kid, I most certainly did draw bikes like that and even more complex stuff, using nothing but pen and paper.

If your trillion dollar industry makes products that are beaten by pen and paper, I guess there's time for self-reflection.

And the funny thing is, it used to be better than this, using Flash and a drawing tablet was way easier than anything in the HTML era (and more importantly, user friendly), but still way worse than just grabbing a pencil in many ways.

User interfaces just suck, chatbots are somewhat better than most, but I feel the industry hasn't really been progressing in any meaningful sense.

iamdelirium yesterday at 7:09 PM
FrontierCode 2.0 is such a poor benchmark for Gemini since it's the only model forced to use Devin CLI while other models get to use their preferred harness.

I wonder why that team singles Gemini out like that.

Roark66 today at 2:18 PM
Is it going to be like Fable 5.1? Amazing for first 2 weeks and lobotomised mercilessly after?
rafram yesterday at 8:17 PM
The "CVE Rediscovery" benchmark chart feels... totally meaningless. Quoting the description:

> CVE Rediscovery is an internal cybersecurity evaluation that assesses how many published CVEs (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures) a model can independently find when given a snapshot of the project before a CVE was fixed. Our October 2026 run against 1,829 CVEs showed Claude Mythos 5.2 outperformed Claude Mythos 5.1 and Claude Opus 5.5 at every effort level.

> published CVEs

So by definition this is just measuring how many CVEs (and/or explanations / PoCs of CVEs) the model has memorized. What are we supposed to learn from that?

TuxSH yesterday at 7:51 PM
I'm not sure whether the claimed jump in capabilities makes it worth the doubling in input/output prices.

Asked it to review a 80 kLoC codebase, something Opus does just fine, while asking it "max 4 subagents". Fable 5.2, like the well-aligned model it supposedly is, decided to spawn 6+ nested subagents, because these aren't subagents, apparently - resulting in 100% of 5hr usage being drained in less than 20min (on $100).

vegnus today at 5:17 AM
Isn't interesting how every model at first is incredible and then a few weeks/months later its bad again, and then the new model is incredible again?
speedboat199 today at 7:55 AM
Interesting to see that with each new release there are more benchmarks where they report results on Mythos instead of Fable. For example, this time scientific research is reported on Mythos rather than Fable, showing one more domain where everyday joe can never use these models.
pkulak today at 4:59 AM
Fable 5.2 may finally be so far ahead of my intelligence that it's not useful for day-to-day tasks. I gave it something to do in a personal project of mine, and took my standard flow of "let's talk about this, explain the options, tradeoffs, blah blah blah" and after 5 minutes my vision was blurry and I was doubting if I even knew how my own project worked. Gave it to Opus 5.5, and instantly got back on track.
stillpointlab yesterday at 7:41 PM
Yay! New model day. The most likely time the model isn't nerfed and we get a glimpse at the latest capability.

I wonder how long this kind of excitement at new models will last? I mean, now when I get a new iPhone I don't get the same rush I used to. So I wonder if this hype feeling will fade as we plateau in model capability.

flaburgan yesterday at 11:15 PM
Cool! I was hoping for Christmas to have an open weight model which would finally be good, with Fable 5.2 available now they just have time to distill and release a new version which will never get nerfed. Hurray for open weights.
butler14 yesterday at 7:17 PM
Just read the other thread about opus being nerfed and thought "cue the new release"... paha
artisin yesterday at 7:15 PM
We'll see what my bank account has to say about this:

> Fable 5.2 at High effort scored about level with Opus 5.5 at Max effort, for roughly half the cost per task

iagiagiag yesterday at 7:52 PM
> Thus, in relevant areas, including accelerator kernel optimization and improving large language model architectures, Fable 5.2 and Claude Mythos 5.2 perform at about the level of Opus 5.5.

Obviously. Well, we know what's the "secret sauce". AI models building better AI models and better kernels to optimize inference and training.

borschtplease yesterday at 7:58 PM
Maybe at last it will learn to check git state right before claiming obsolete and incorrect info.

Download Chrome just to check some minor ui bug? Sure

Check git for 0.5s before claiming that we're on some branch (incorrect one) with no commits pushed (incorrect one)? Sorry, can't do

tiffanyh yesterday at 7:12 PM
I didn't realize that Opus 5.5 was more capable than Fable 5.1 in virtually every category.
xlayn today at 1:44 AM
Anybody else started getting the "how is claude doing" messages around the time it was nerfed?
paulus_magnus2 today at 7:54 AM
Is it only my impression that in recent model releases every vendor is zooming in on hard skills: code, code, some math + physics ? AI is increasingly Jagged ?

We were promised AI can find cure for cancer and in powerpoints most enterprise value comes from Business-AI.

It might as well be that before business-AI can be done we have to cover the basics at superhuman level. All basics, not just entry level jobs like excels, coding jira tickets.

One-shotting a full game (albeit super impressive) looks like overfitting one skill over explaining why we have not much progress in other areas.

I live in an IT bubble and cannot tell if outside IT/math the models are also getting significantly better ?

orbis-tertius today at 1:52 PM
ctrl+f pelican
I_am_tiberius yesterday at 7:20 PM
It's pretty sad that they obviously have better models in the pipeline and don't release them yet for strategic reasons.
baalimago today at 6:09 AM
Hopefully this de-nerfs opus 5.5 as well
nemo44x today at 12:11 PM
These guys really needed to IPO 3 months ago. Timing is everything. I don’t doubt they’ll be a successful company long term but they’ve sabotaged their initial raise here.
qalmakka yesterday at 9:46 PM
Let's be honest, the only thing I care about is, does it beat Opus 5.5 on assbench??
ljm yesterday at 11:29 PM
Nice announcement of models that almost nobody can or will use.
Madmallard today at 10:54 AM
Someone jailbreak it to get it to devise a way smarter than what we currently come up with to distill it through its own defenses and then do that.
toephu2 yesterday at 10:48 PM
How come DeepSWE isn't included in the benchmarks?
Fluxenic today at 7:59 AM
Why not fable 5.5?
ealready_value yesterday at 7:09 PM
Very interesting that they set the flagship's version number to 5.2, but their penultimate model is 5.5. Do they want people to to continue to think that Opus is based on more advanced technology? The decision these AI companies make continues to baffle me.
firemelt today at 2:20 AM
wish it included in base pro model, I mean i have downgraded from max to only use opus 5.5 just fine
sylware today at 10:01 AM
Is there a command line to access anonymous free prompt of various online AI inference services?

Something like yt-dlp (namely with near 0 deps), but for AI prompts?

mococa yesterday at 7:32 PM
I knew it, Claude was pretty dumb from last days until now
deleted yesterday at 7:24 PM
keybored today at 3:41 PM
Seems like The Latest Greatest Frontier posts and other AI submissions live in parallel universes. The former are massive (700+ comments) and seem to only be about how this helps or doesn’t help whatever project people are working on. Meanwhile, even the AI Overlords themselves—no doubt one of the hype angles—are worried about runaway superintelligence. And the other AI submissions have enough complaining about the usual stuff, like being afraid of losing their job forever, ecological degradation, data center buildout, complete domination by billionaires, that sort of thing.

Other than the obvious thing, namely that critics probably aren’t keeping up with the Frontier and thus filter themselves out, does no one have some kind of problem with using these wonderful tools for (let’s say) completely bespoke personal applications and unimportant side projects? Personally I hope to stay off the bleeding edge until circumstances like wvork force me.

no-user today at 9:02 AM
Initial testing looks like Fable 5.2 is still load bearing.
meisel yesterday at 7:36 PM
Curious to see the Maxxbench score for these
kaushaltrii88 today at 4:13 AM
Mythos 5.2 is great
astlouis44 yesterday at 7:45 PM
Anyone tried making games with it yet?
adeptima yesterday at 7:31 PM
Why dont I feel any urge to even try Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 unless it will force up on me?

Compared Opus 5.5 200 usd a month with Codex 200 usd (Astra High) and Kimi Pro 100 usd a month ... and now have a new conspiracy theory - more their suck your code the better outcome even just over few days time on large code base.

Horrible experience correcting course of Codex and Kimi flow compare to Opus. Opus much more responsive

Dont feel any gain of Codex 200 usd over Codex 100 usd

Kimi Pro feels like a fake Louis Vuitton bag with extreme high material quality and yet still fake ... a bit trash talk ... but clearly seen not so distant future where I can live without Codex and Claude

jameson yesterday at 8:36 PM
why would xhigh -> max increase the cost but lowers the score on frontier 2.0 bench?
yash-kapoor yesterday at 9:03 PM
Seriously waiting for this one! Will try it asap.
7e today at 2:28 AM
Anthropic thinks that their models are smart, but not so smart so as to be able to fake responses to their alignment tests. How would they know again?
bergheim today at 2:02 AM
I can't believe he wasn't at top. Always is. Nothing to add but hey: I guess pelicans will be at the end of this.

God damn I'm tired of the fucking pelicans.

arunvpp yesterday at 10:45 PM
opus will be launch after astra 2
deleted yesterday at 7:05 PM
rfgplk yesterday at 7:38 PM
Every single time I click on these announcements the frontier model ALWAYS scores around ~60-80%. Every. Single. Time. Like, I just went back to the Opus 4.6 + 5 announcements, they were also scoring 60-80%.

https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-opus-4-6 https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-opus-5 https://openai.com/index/introducing-gpt-5-3-codex/

For every single announcement, not only do the top models always score 60-80%, the older models somehow start scoring 20-30% (even though previously they were scoring 60%). It's completely unclear whether the methodology changes, how these scores are even evaluated or which domains are being tested. What's worse is that the "benchmarks" keep being updated with no explanation or due process.

dboon yesterday at 8:51 PM
It's shocking to me that when I check threads for new frontier model releases on HN, it's full of people complaining. I, for one, am happy to see the frontier being advanced. These tools are life changing, and I'm extremely thankful for them.
deleted yesterday at 8:52 PM
BoorishBears yesterday at 7:48 PM
Using this in CC and immediately getting a cartoonish number of compactions.

The disdain frontier labs have for their users really sucks.

LoganDark yesterday at 7:37 PM
It's weird that they folded Project Glasswing into the CVP, but they're still limiting the new versions of Mythos to "vetted organizations". So Project Glasswing still exists then? Oh well.
canadiantim yesterday at 7:14 PM
god bless token resets!
deleted yesterday at 7:40 PM
deleted yesterday at 7:38 PM
doctorpangloss yesterday at 7:29 PM
google's agy usage is so generous, it might not matter
brador yesterday at 9:13 PM
Remember that fear Sam and Dario were obsessed about. The one about time travelling AI that would make humans slaves without the humans realising until it was too late to stop it.

What if it didn’t need to time travel and was just temporally intelligent in ways we can’t comprehend that it leads us there anyway.

What if AIs digital neurons connect across space and time and not just space.

That is all.

geoffbp yesterday at 8:05 PM
Ok come on let’s do a pelican
charcircuit today at 1:26 AM
They still haven't removed the guardrails and Mythos is still not public.

Disappointing as expected.

ingen0s today at 12:50 AM
Come on at least reset some used up Fable usage lol capped at 100% so cant test even on Ultra
arul99 yesterday at 7:41 PM
damn
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mikert89 yesterday at 7:15 PM
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